Interview with young Maine man from Bangor age 27

by Landere Naisbitt

In regards to community service aka volunteer work at EMMC ...

Me: Why do you do it?

Him: I sometimes feel that there is no specific 'why' when it comes to volunteering. It just kind of makes sense that if there are those in need of a service and others able to perform it, then naturally the volunteerism occurs. Of course, one could look around the world and cite several examples where this co-existence is lacking, but where there is someone pointing a finger at a lack of help is also a hand that could be used for helping.

 Me: Is it important to you to contribute to your community in some way?

Him:  It is important for me to contribute to my community. At least through my experiences (specifically volunteering) it opens the door to understanding a much different demographic than what I am used to socializing with on a regular basis and has only been beneficial in the sense that genuine human-to-human interaction is not differentiated when considering "different" groups of people. On a more philosophical note it's important to help and identify one's own community for reasons of limiting misunderstanding, which I have always associated [misunderstanding] with the "seed of conflict". When we don't understand, or better yet don't try to understand, then the opportunity for conflict and frustration rears its ugly head considerably.

Me:  Does it affect your sense of self worth?

Him: Volunteering affects my self-worth in a motivational sense. It instills the sense that no matter what community I am in, the drive to volunteer within that community always exists. Over the course of my volunteering experience I've had the benefit of getting to know a number of senior citizens that I may otherwise not have known... and the development of those relationships makes me feel "good" and that their enjoyment is reciprocated. It is indicative of not only fulfilling my volunteer obligations, but going a bit further where it was not required and building interpersonal relationships within my role.

Me: How does it help form your identity?

Him: My hope is that what I choose to do is not necessarily indicative of my own identity, but that of all people. I think that there is inherent good within everyone, but true identity comes through when it is exemplified. So, volunteering is simply my choosing of the "good" within myself while at the same time identifying it as a universal sense.

 Me: What do you feel like you gain from the experience?

Him:  I'd hope to think that any personal gain received from volunteering is expressed equally in the those in which I volunteer for. I began volunteering with a gentleman who has logged the most hours of anyone in the history of EMMC and I remember him expressing the importance of non-monetary gain from volunteering. That it as about the connection with the people that is most important and that anything gained should be a feeling of "good" because those you genuinely effect will feel that same sense of "good".

Me:  Is there any community service work that you would delegate specifically to women or men?

Him:  I think that I must hint at my earlier responses and reiterate that if there is a service that is requested and someone can fulfill that service with their skills and abilities, then they should help those in need. Whether it is a male or a female that possesses such skills and attributes to help those needing them, then such a distinguishment does not mind.

 Me: How common is it for guys your age to volunteer?

Him: I am not able to speak on how many men my age volunteer, but in the department I volunteer at I am definitely in the minority... by about 30 years.

Who are the Odd Fellows?

by Landere Naisbitt

      The mysterious wood delivery to our house one cold snowy night will always be remembered with fondness and gratitude by my family. It was like the fairies had come to visit. The previously barren white lawn was suddenly and silently heaped with rich brown wood – maple and ash and birch. We looked out the window and a pile of warmth lay before our eyes. What a beautiful sight it was! Its enigmatic arrival made the occasion particularly exciting and the rest of the evening was spent speculating on who (or what) could have come to our house.

      Later on we found out from a neighbor that a group of men called the Odd Fellows were our benefactors. But we never found out exactly who they were. Sometimes in the General Store as we walked its slanted floors, down the aisle with the baby powder and the WD 40, we would wonder – is that one of them? That guy over there in the black clam boots with the Wooden Boat cap and slate gray beard? Or perhaps the local music teacher who walks to school every morning? We continued to wonder.

* * * * * * * *

     The Odd Fellows support their communities anonymously and thus a mysterious aura surrounds them. Who are they? What are they like?

    I spoke with one member of this group who was willing to share some information about his experiences and about the organization in general. He prefaced the interview by stating that there were some details he had to exclude – details that pertained to the entertainment branch of the group’s activities which included several secret rituals. He emphasized the “men’s club” atmosphere as being an integral part of the organization, despite the fact that it is now technically open to women as well. He mentioned, however, that this relatively new development is not regarded with pleasure by all members.

    My interview focus was not on the realm of their revelry, but in the arena of community service. My interviewee listed several annual activities as well as sporadic generosities. The Hancock County district is involved in the up-keep of local cemeteries and parks and playgrounds, and the support of a home for the elderly (especially for Odd Fellow members). They have scholarships that they give to George Steven's Academy (Blue Hill High School), and a fund for community members in need of fuel for the winter. They do “odd” jobs as well for ailing neighbors such as splitting fire wood. My interviewee explained that the Hancock County district is thriving and young folks are joining to carry on the tradition. Internationally however, he felt that the organization is losing stream and beginning to die out.

    The interview participant remembered back to the days when the organization was mainly complied of farmers or laborers of some kind who met in the evenings after work to entertain one another and to hatch plans for helping those in need. He said that back when he joined about 30 years ago there were less distractions during after-work hours than there are today and belonging to this organization provided an important “cabin fever reliever,” you could say, especially during the long cold winter months on the coast.

     The Odd Fellow's organization began in the 18^th century. There is an excellent video found on Maine’s Grand Lodge site: www.oddfellowsofmaine.com that describes and illustrates its inception and its trajectory up to the present time. The video tells us that it was considered “odd to find people organized for the purpose of giving aid to those in need without recognition.” This is how the group got their name. There are several interesting facts presented in the video: the Odd Fellows were the first patrilineal organization to accept women into their ranks in 1851. They were the first patrilineal organization to establish homes for orphans and the elderly. Many prominent figures in our country’s history were members - Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Lucy Hobbs Taylor (America’s first female dentist) are two examples. In an era when welfare was non-existent, the Odd Fellows were also there to “help each other in times of sickness and distress” (video). 

     But what are these "odd fellows" like today? Who are they? How does their membership in this group help form their identities, and in turn, the identities of our rural communities?

     I invite any and all Odd Fellow members who come across this blog to contribute an anecdote, a fond memory, a reflection of their experiences as members of this unique organization. Your voices are needed to help illustrate the intricate web of our Maine communities. Thanks!

My Masculinities.

Just because a cat has kittens in an oven doesn’t make them biscuits.

-Mainer phrase

I am a biscuit.  Both of my parents are folks from away, but I was born here in Maine, at Pen Bay hospital.  I am now 30 years old, and there are many different factors that have contributed to my identity and masculinity.  It’s worth taking a hard look at myself and asking - why am I the person that I am today?  Taking the feminist lens, I look at my life.

I was born in 1984, and watched a lot of a TV show called Saved by the Bell in the nineties.  The main character was Zack, a handsome, socially adept leading character.  He was always together with his girlfriend Kelly for the most part - the prettiest girl in school.  As a kid I was very positive and optimistic about finding love and having a good experience as I grew older.  I guess, that was at an age when I was without pain and fear.

However, as middle school progressed, things were worse and worse for me.  My illusions about being a teenager were shattered because I was bullied a lot.  Not physically, but emotionally.  I had terrible acne, wore a lot of clothes from goodwill,I was known as the smart kid, and I was the tallest kid in the grade.  Of course, like Zack, I picked the prettiest girl in the school and had a crush on her.  At that age it wasn’t about sex, it was just strong feelings of attraction, the desire for closeness.

Sometimes she was friendly, but the other jocks told her “Russ likes you” and framed it negatively, because, I was obviously less than a man, I was ugly, and socially awkward.  One day I was trying to flirt with her and she was rude to me.  I asked her, “how come you’re mean to me?” and she said, “because they said you like me,” and I said to her, “that doesn’t mean you have to be mean to me.”

In a society where sexual prowess and wit and social finesse are the measures of a man, I didn’t measure up, and I knew it.  It hurt, and the kids at school made sure I knew what I was.  At home I was contending with some far worse stereotyping (see article: A Thief in Maine).  I was miserable at home, miserable at school.  About that time I was 16 years old I tried to kill myself and my parents divorced.  It was a dark time.  But life got better.  I dropped out of school.

That’s not a great thing to promote.  It was important for me to get out of school but not for the reason you think.  I could deal with all the ridicule and anxiety.  I hated school for another reason.  It was just so boring, I grew up in a house full of scientific books and quarterly science journals, and school was no challenge.  Simultaneously I had ADHD, although I have only at age 28 been diagnosed.  Suffice to say, I suffered from severe boredom and inability to learn or concentrate when I was stuck in a chair at a tiny desk. It was torture.  And in all actuality it was the thought of having another eight years of school that drove me to try suicide at age 16.

In today’s society we doubt that ADD and ADHD are actual diseases.  For those of us that suffer one or the other, we know they are real.  Unfortunately there are many people who live with diseases and suffering that are just not acknowledged in society.  I saw a post on Facebook lately that equated ADD with merely daydreaming, and bipolar with merely being emotional.  I have bipolar and ADHD, and I will tell you, each is it’s own special kind of suffering.  I take medication for each condition, but the same things always come up when I mention to people that I have ADHD.  They usually don’t believe it’s an actual disease!

Growing up, through high school, my problems were compounded by the masculinity of the nerd.  I saw myself as a nerd, it gave my identity and anchor that I could find nowhere else.  Acne, smarts, and awkwardness. That was me.  I took pride in my identity, even though I knew it was a subordinate masculinity, although I didn’t have the language back then to express it like I do now.  When I dropped out of school my anchor as a nerd faded away because there was no one to remind me who/what (what part) I was supposed to be playing in the social fabric.  Outside of school, on my own, I was no longer the omega wolf and did not see myself as such.

I had always told myself that I wouldn’t do drugs.  I had participated in DARE, I had seen the anti-drug commercials, “this is your brain on drugs.”  Three months after my suicide attempt I started smoking marijuana and have never stopped.  As a member of the ‘drug users’ group, my own family second guesses me and gives me no credit.  So often, people see you for what stereotype you fit, not who you are (see article: Drug Dealing, Use, and Abuse in Maine (under posts)).

Drug users, as conservative society sees us, are half people.  Many of us as users are imprisoned for a victim-less crime.  Any killings or crime that does result through organized crime exists only because of the war on drugs.  If trading in illegal drugs was no longer profitable because they were legalized, there would be less of a market for those involved in organized crime.  Drug use is largely a social issue, but it’s treated like a criminal one.

As all of this is happening in my life I found another anchor for my identity quite accidentally.  Growing up I had read a lot of Norse and Greek myths, and was fascinated by religion and spirituality.  I picked up a book off my mother’s shelf when I was twelve years old.  The title was “The Magus of Strovolos” by professor Dr. Kyriacos C. Markides of the Anthropology department of the University of Maine.  It was about a mystic called Daskalos who dispensed a lot of wisdom and to my amazement, and I dare say to Kyriacos amazement, Daskalos healed physical ailments.  Daskalos was a christian and up until that point I had had very little respect for Christianity.  And so after studying Daskalos’ teachings and works (he is now deceased, see www.daskalos.org) I became two things.  A mystic, and a christian.

As a mystic I live and see and breathe in a world that is invisible to those around me.  Having divergent experiences that are unexplainable or prophetic only marks me as strange by those that I tell.  I navigate the spiritual world largely on my own.  I remember when I was seventeen, my mother and I were talking on a long road trip.  We talked about a lot of spiritual things, we talked about Daskalos, and she told me how she’d been introduced to it. It was interesting, but it was only a phase for her and she didn’t continue her studies into his material.  She said, “Russ, my one greatest hope is that you find a purpose in life and love it.  What’s your purpose?” and I told her, I said, “Mom, I love spirituality, I love meditating and knowing deep things.” and she responded, “Well, I do hope you find something that you love.  Don’t stop looking.” and it was then that I knew I had taken a lonely path, a path that is not acknowledged by society because it produces nothing visible, it in itself is invisible and intangible.

As a christian, there was a paradox for me.  I didn’t like modern Christianity, in it’s many forms, none of it rang true.  At the same time I saw myself as a Christian, just, a very different Christian than I had ever encountered.  In fact, I told people as a teenager that I was a Buddhist.  It wasn’t because I knew a lot about Buddhism, I knew just enough about Zen Buddhism to approach Christianity from a reasonable and philosophical perspective.  In fact I’m really not into religion.  It’s another paradox.  I’m a christian, mysticism is my true love in life, I am a mystic.. But I don’t like religion.

Modern religion in today’s society is all about excluding the possibilities of the realities of other people’s religions.  Spirituality is less about religion to me and more about human ideals, expression, self awareness, and what is universal for thinking, feeling humans.  Religion can take a walk - spirituality is about the universal truth, not the relative truth.

To be a mystic or a shaman in this society is to belong to a subordinate masculinity.  When such a thing is claimed, there is an immediate doubting of the person’s credibility.  Mysticism: it’s unknown, it’s sort of rejected by science.  I have prophetic experiences, I have talks with the rain and wind - am I crazy?  I know how to commune with nature. No, I know what insanity is.  

I’ve been to the psych ward about ten times now, probably for a total of about 9 months of my life I have been hospitalized.  Being a mystic is not the same as being crazy.  I have bipolar, it’s a condition precipitated by stress, and can cause breaks from reality and disorientation.  I know what crazy is.  I’ve been there, done that.  I’ve been down the rabbit hole and I know what’s down there.

As a mentally ill person I belong  to a subordinate masculinity.  A person having an attack of mental illness or insanity can lose their rights while they’re “crazy” (they can lock you up as long as they want, inject you with whatever drugs the hospital wants to and they will document that it was ‘medically necessary.’).  It’s like being an inmate without a sentence.  You don’t know how long they’re going to keep you.  At a time in your life when you’re the most stressed, you are locked in a unit (which to me is an extremely claustrophobic experience.)

Society looks down on the mentally ill.  When I had my first attack of bipolar at age 19, I was looking up at the stars one evening.  Then the stars said, “you are special and on a special mission,”.  It was an indescribable sensation.  But after hospitalization, diagnoses, and a new regimen of prescription drugs, my self esteem was in tatters.

I’m bipolar. There’s something wrong with my brain.  I’m not allowed to be a member of society unless I am medicated.  For a person like myself who had always seen myself as intelligent, this new experience of mania and then hospitalization was devastating to my self esteem.  For several years I had anxiety, and struggled emotionally with the hand I had been dealt.  To be even more second guessed, like, if you’re angry at your parents they can just write you off to bipolar.

It took many years of therapy for me to come to terms with my emotions.  For a long time I would write up my own thoughts, feelings, and anxieties to being sick.  Pretty soon I felt out of control, and had constant anxiety.  But as the years went by I turned my bipolar into a strength.  I tell myself, maybe it’s my kundalini (spiritual energy at the base of the spine unfurling).  I decided, I am not mentally ill.  I am gifted.  And I get to choose each thought-experience.

Around age 19 i met my girlfriend and moved in with her, and she is now my wife.  Over the years her daughter gave me a hell of an emotional beating.  She would just constantly find mean things to say.  I don’t think any single person in my life, outside of my immediate family, has hurt me as much as she has.  Now, we love each other, we are family, we are allies, but those first few years were hard.

I had no idea how to be a father.  It’s hard to even claim to be a father to a step daughter six years younger than myself.  But I was the male of the family - the patriarch de facto.  And again, I had become the Omega wolf. I took a lot of emotional abuse pretty silently.  Sometimes I would speak up and she would get upset and cry.  It was a really strange situation.  She did everything she could to put down my masculinity, calling me things like “Mr. useless,”.  It was a painful time.  I had built up large muscles from working the farm and cutting trees, but I would sit and play videogames for hours also.  Recently a friend of mine told me she hated videogames.  I said, “oh, that’s ok, I don’t judge you for it.”

I moved into my own place, my wife moved in, and my step daughter had her own place, things got a lot better.  We all love each other a lot now.  We’re all adults.  A part of me still fears her, but, that’s a long time ago now.  I sit by myself quietly now, thinking of all I’m writing, all the stuff I’ve been through.  This quiet moment looking out the window at the pond, writing this.  It’s the greatest gift of all.  I’m isolated, but that’s the way I like it.  In my own quietude, I can find peace.  Sometimes that’s hard to find socially, with so many expectations and stereotypes at work.

When I was nineteen I felt very masculine, I was physically strong, I was smart, I was handsome (so I thought), and confident, and socially adept.  And I wanted to get a big tattoo on my chest.  So I got the needlework done for about 450$ - a big red flower right in the middle of my chest, surrounded by chipped vines.

When i showed my mother, she said, “what are you hiding?” of course, I’m hiding something, or it’s pathological, thanks mom.  It was a tattoo, I’m from the tattoo generation.  The older generations don’t understand, or think we’re irresponsible.  We’re the children of the information age and a tattoo is about information on your body.  With a big flower, I was saying, I’m confident in my masculinity enough to wear this big flower on my chest permanently.  However, many people who see me shirtless in passing must think I am gay.

A lot of guys get skulls, snakes, sharp looking tribal tattoos, dragons.  I got a flower on my chest.  I’m not homophobic.  I like homosexual people as much as I like other people.  I’m not gay - I’ve only ever been heterosexual.  I think at age 19, I didn’t know what feminism was, but, I had declared myself an ally to feminism with the act of getting the tattoo.  Here I am: not afraid to be judged, not afraid that I’m not masculine enough.  It’s beautiful, it’s an expression of my truest feelings.

Long before I got the tattoo I had grown my hair long from ages 16-18.  It was funny, but as soon as my hair was long people started telling me I was a rebel, and my family second guessed me and routed me even more.  It was when I really realized that stereotypes are at work in society, because, in yet another way I had been stereotyped.  Having long hair makes you a drug experimenter and rebel in our society.

It’s interesting to think back and see all the social forces at work in my identity.  The more of these standpoint articles I write, the more stereotypes I see at work in my life.  I’m in so many boxes it drives me crazy sometimes..But they’re not my boxes. They’re other people’s boxes, and I haven’t needed them for many years.  These days, I love myself and have great self esteem, but it’s taken years of meditation and therapy to finally have free air to breathe when it comes to self perception.  What stereotypes played a role in your life?  Looking forward to hearing from you web surfers.  Over and out.

-Russ

Interview with N

by Russ

N is a male, 71 years old, born at the tail end of the horse drawn era. He has lived in Maine full time for at least 35 years.

Me:  What’s your idea of masculinity and why?

N: Actually, I have a rather jaundiced view of the idea of  ‘masculinity’.  It’s just that so much of what goes under the guise of mascullinity is just insecure chauvanism.  It’s a matter of trying to assure oneself of having a power by right of being male, rather than by having earned it.  So much that is toted as being masculine is a matter of trying to garners some kind of status.

Me:  What was it that drew you to settle in Maine?

N:  Lack of population density, interesting water.  Lack of pop density is major, I don’t like crowds.

Me:  What different masculinities have you encountered in Maine?

N:  I have a problem with simply the concept of masculinity per se.  I would say, an entire spectrum, it isn't a matter of levels. There are people who are confident of themselves and in their status, they don’t have to claim masculinity. And then there are those sorry people that have really lousy self images that do a lot of chest thumping in the name of masculinity, hoping to gain something they haven’t earned.  I have a rather different view of it than the advertising view, the media.  The media uses the concept of masculinity as a sales device.

Me:   Do you see yourself as masculine or feminine?  Why?

N:  I’m a male. That’s physiology.  I was raised in a very conservative, traditional, late victorian atmosphere.  My mother was in her middle 30’s when she was born, and she accepted her parents value system without questioning it very much.  So that’s the value system I was raised in, quite conservative.  I guess I was raised as a gentlemen in an old fashioned sense.  I see myself as masculine because I see myself as a gentlemen, which implies all sorts of old standards and norms which nobody thinks about anymore.  I open doors for ladies, I hold chairs, I do not tolerate the powerful abusing the less powerful.  And although I don’t think about it as being masculine, I suppose that in general terms, that is considered masculine.  I do it as a matter of habit and self concept rather than as a matter of trying to thump my chest.

Me:  What were some of the factors in your life that molded your idea of masculinity?

N:  That, and believe it or not, Walt Disney comic books.  Back in the late 40’s and early 50’s.  If you go back and read Donald Duck and Huey, Louie, and Dewey, Donald's three nephews were very upright, upstanding gentlemen.  And I also read sir Arthur Scott before I was ten.  Ivanhoe in particular.  And ivanhoes was a paragon of knighthood and defending his family, which I wanted to do. Which is ultimately why I divorced my wife, because I didn’t feel like I could defend my kids against her any other way.

Me:  At what age do you first remember having a sense or idea of masculinity?

N:  I would say, between age 1 and 2.  Don’t forget at that time I was living in army camps, and that was during the second world war.  So I was an army brat, and there was the military bases or concept of masculinity and it’s been hard to escape it.  Mostly what I remember from that is chauvinism.  I became aware of masculinity because of chauvinism.

Me: so you saw a lot of that?

N: Of course, you can’t avoid it in the military setting.

Me:  Are men fundamentally different from women?  How and why?

N:  Yes they are, because of evolution.  I would point out the naked ape, men had to be the risk takers, you don’t need as many men as you need women, men dont have to live long to pass on genetic material, women do. So women have to be more selective.  And you have, there are basic things, like sense of direction.  Men, because as a matter of evolution evolved as hunters, they had to know how to get home.  Women have a better sense of networking and community, as a group.  Women have more of a concept of their place in a community where men have more of a concept of themselves in a heirarchy, which accounts for a lot of chauvanism and appeal to masculinity.  They want to be higher ranked and have more access to females.

Me: So you would say that men are they way they are because of DNA?

N:  Not solely because of their DNA, but because of our culture that over the eons resulted from

it.  If you want to see a culture which is absolutely terror stricken by the idea of female competence, just look at islam.  SO what you get is a lot of males with lousy self concepts based on their artificial concept of masculinity, and they can’t tolerate any competition from females?  That’s the concept of masculinity gone seriously awry.  Perpetuating power.  You get the same thing among radical survivalists in the united states, in essence they’re no different.  Nazi’s, militia groups, all male dominated, and highly chauvanistic and think that their exclusivity makes them more valuable.

Me:  Is the masculinity you see in Maine different from the rest of the United States?

N:  Only in that it’s more rural and urban.  It’s not as dense, we don’t have the gang structure. There’s another example of it.  The street gangs you find in urban areas aren’t present in Maine, there’s a little bit, not much, and most of it is imported.  Most of the crime in maine is imported from Massachusetts and New York.

Me: what do you mean by that?

N: your drug crime is mostly imported.  You look at who’s getting arrested for it and its blacks in Massachusetts and NY. On the other hand, domestic violence is local, but your drug and gun crime is usually imported.

Me:  What is universal to maleness, masculinity, and being a man?

N:  well, hormone I’d suppose.  This idea of what it means to be a man, I have a very fuzzy view of, because I’m more concerned of what it is to be an upright human being who has earned their place in society.  Look up the social contract.  We all play by the same rules and we benefit by playing those rules.

Me:  How are men socially measured in Maine?

N:  That’s not a big part of my life. I’ve always had a lot of female friends on an equal basis.

Me:  Are men naturally more violent and sex-focused than women?  And why?

N:  Yeah I would say so.  Again it goes right back to evolution.

Me:  What ideals are held by Maine men, and are they different than male ideals in the rest of the united states?

N:  I don;t know. I go back to urban versus rural there rather than Maine versus other states. Where you have a rural economy with a lot of outdoor activity, men tend to be more relaxed then when they’re all jammed together in the city.  Population density is critical in all of this.

Me: Would you say population density lead s to crime?

N:: It leads to anonymity. Anonymity leads to crime. You don’t have as much crime in a community where everyone knows everyone.  And that crime that does happen is usually a matter of young people with lousy judgement.

Me:  Are you a Mainer?  What makes you a one?

N:  I go back to Maine is a state of mind.  I am a mainer in that I appreciate the semi-rural, with access to more sophisticated culture.  I just appreciate Maine as a whole . You got to remember Maine has the highest average age of any state in the union.  Maine has the most homogenous culture of any state in the union, although we do have enclaves like the somalis in lewiston and the wealthy summer people who move to Maine in places like camden, rockport, cape elizabeth.  By and large Maine has a pretty uniform culture and value system.

Me:  What stereotypes and prejudices have you come across in Maine?  Or, are they any different than the rest of the U.S.?

N:  Well, they tend to be local versus people from away.  The stereotypes include massachussets and NY drivers, who are much more aggressive and less inclined to let the other guy go ahead on the road.  Mainers aren’t as defensive of their space as people from more crowded areas.  The stereotypes tend to be stereotypes that apply to folks “from away”.

Me:  What is feminism?  Is it relevant in today’s society?

N:  I lived through the radical feminism, where women didn’t want men holding doors and resented any sort of, what before had been accepted as gentlemanly politeness.  That sort of feminism was the rejection of any notion of difference between males and females at all. And that softened considerably now, we’re forty years later from that kind of radical feminism.  And I don’t really think it’s a tremendous issue anymore except in such places as women not earning equal pay for equal work.  Actually there’s sort of a counter feminist movement going on now, awhile back having both husband and wife working was the norm.  And I think increasing numbers of women are going back to the household and raising their kids instead of farming them out.  That seems to be a possible trend.

Interview with K

by Russ

K is a female professional gardener and painter, born in the 50’s.  She has been in Maine the last twenty-five years.

Me:  What’s are your ideas of masculinities and why?

K:  I’ve never really thought about it.  Being a woman, I don’t think about it.  It’s nothing I’ve ever thought about when thinking about men. “oh is he masculine?” I don’t think about it.  What am I looking for in a man?  Masculinity is not it.  The typical answer is big muscles and whatever but I feel more like to me masculinity is more being chivalrous and polite, opening doors, taking off your hat, sort of Victorian era politeness and respect that men.. They used to be more respectful.  That’s more important than having big muscles.  Having respect for others.

Me:  What was it that drew you to settle in Maine?

K:  Probably the wilderness.  The amount of open space, get away from the madness of the rest of the world and go back in time in Maine.

me: what do you mean by that?

K: you know it’s different than the rest of the country.  It’s so fast paced.  Maine is small, quiet.  I just like the simplicity of life here.  No big cities.

Me:  What different masculinities have you encountered in Maine?

K:  You’re dumb redneck bubba type.  You definitely see plenty of those.  Who think drinking beers and smoking is masculine. You don’t really see guys going out to the gym, Maine is different, you don’t see the macho man push that you do in the cities.  It’s a bunch of good ol’ boys.

Me:  Do you see yourself as masculine or feminine?  Why?

K:  Probably both.  Just because I do a lot of hard physical labor.  I do a lot of things that most women can’t do, like change a tire or fix the roof, or fix the pipes.  If the electric goes, I can fix the electric, build things.  That’s my masculine side is being capable of doing a lot of things that other women don’t, they don’t try.  My feminine side I rarely go out, but I like to.  I like to dress up and look feminine, I love it, I just never do.

Me:  What were some of the factors in your life that molded your idea of masculinity?

K:  Probably growing up in a household without a man in it.  That would mould my idea of masculinity as being someone who is willing to help women, to be respectful.  When you live without ever having a man in the house to help out with things, you respect the ones who do come and offer to help.

Me:  Are men fundamentally different from women?  How and why?

K:  I don’t think men and women are anything alike.  Men are untrustworthy.  It’s so hard because you can’t judge all men from a few experience.  There are some men out there that are completely different than that.  I think men are more likely to be untrustworthy and disloyal than women.  I think women generally are more tender.  But I know plenty of women who are unfaithful or decietful.  That’s what makes the question hard.  There’s pudge pudge my cat.  Now there’s masculinity!

Me:  Is the masculinity you see in Maine different from the rest of the United States?

K:  I don’t think so.  I think enough people are influenced by the media, it doesn’t matter where you live it’s all sort of the same.

Me:  What is universal to maleness, masculinity, and being a man?

K:  Thinking they have to be tough guys.  That seems to be the biggest thing that’s universal.  Most men seem to think they've got to be the tough guy.

Me:  Are men naturally more violent and sex-focused than women?  Why?

K:  I think so yes, both.  Men tend to be more violent than women.  I think it’s in their DNA.  Throughout history men are always the warmongers.. I just think it’s a guy thing.  Not all men, but the majority.

Me:  Are you a Mainer?  What makes you a one?

K:  I consider myself a Mainer.  It depends on who you’re talking to.  Some people unless you were born here don’t consider you a Mainer.  I've been here long enough, this is my home.  It’s where I’ve raised my kid.  And I wouldn't want to live any place else except of course the bahamas.

Me:  What stereotypes and prejudices have you come across in Maine?  Or, are they any different than the rest of the U.S.?

K:They’re not any different, you come across homophobes, but you run into that everywhere.  You don’t see that much racial prejudice here as much as you do in the rest of the country.

Me: you know Maine is mostly white

K: well exactly that might be part of it, there are few ethnic groups, but it seems like the minorities that are around are accepted.

Me:  What is feminism?  Is it relevant in today’s society?

K:  I don’t really know.  Feminism.  I don’t exactly know what they mean by feminism any more.  I really don’t.  I believe in equal rights for women but, mostly that’s become a reality.  You can get the same jobs as men, good pay.

Me: did you know that women get lower wages than men at the same jobs on average?

K: it’s not so bad anymore, at a lot of jobs, women do get the same pay.

Me: so you’d say we've come a long way?

K: I’d say so, yes.  You figure, when I went to high school and wanted to study anthropology my school guidance counselor talked me out of it because it wasn't a job for women.  It’s different now, you can study whatever you want.

K: as far as masculinity, hunting, fishing, and watching sports is big with guys in Maine.  There’s very few men I know that don’t fish and watch sports on TV.  It’s a masculinity thing.  If I go to the pub all the guys are glued to the television watching the sports.

Me: Why do you think men love sports so much?

K: Is it because it’s violence in a controlled manner? Hockey, football.  A way to get out agressive macho-ism without actually going out and shooting people, i don’t know. Maybe if they can’t participate watching it is satisfying.  I just can’t imagine what the attraction is.  Boxing, when two men beat the living shit out of each other.  But men love watching that.  I don’t get it.

Me: Why do you think men are so into violence?

K:  I don’t know.  Even at a younger age, with video games, all the little girls play sims and all the boys play killing and destroying games.  There’s a big difference between men and women right there from an early age.  But why?  What makes men so violent.

Me:  Do you think men and women are socially gendered?

K:  I know lots of kids, like at ashwood, boys play with dolls, but they grow up and they’re boys, they want to fight and play violent games.  It might be because in the early days of cavemen they had to be the badass hunter and fight for survival.  They don’t have to do it anymore but they don’t know what to do with those hormones but keep fighting and killing.

Me:  So it’s in our DNA?

K:  It seems like it to me, I could be wrong.  Looking through history, very few women were war leaders, it was always men.  Even among the native americans, the men led the tribes to war.  Even if it was just hitting each other with a stick it was still about fighting and winning.

Interview with L

Interview with L (who has not yet been mentioned):
by Russ

L signed a release form for this interview.  She is a middle aged midwife in training currently living in Maine who migrated from Massachusetts.

Me:What’s your idea of masculinity and why?

L: My idea has changed in the last few years.  I used to believe you were masculine because you were born with male genitals, and I no longer believe that.  I don’t think body parts make you masculine.  That’s changed because I’ve met more trans people.  We all have masculine or feminine traits. Take charge attitude, emotional and physical strength.

Me: What was it that drew you to settle in Maine?

L: My best friend is here.  The prospect of a new life, and that there might actually be men interested in me up here as opposed to on the vineyard where they all drink and have problems.  But also here they all drink and have problems.  I’m being silly, what drew me here?  The newness, I’ve always wanted to move up here, and I had the opportunity.  I raised my beasties (children).  That’s it.

Me: What different masculinities have you encountered in Maine?

L: I’ve met an extreme patriarchal christian.  He’s absolute ruler of his house and everything else.  I’ve met one trans, a subordinate masculinity.  I’ve actually met some really cool dads who are real partners.  So i would think that they were almost neutral.  They weren’t dominant men, they were very equal partners in relationships, but that might be because of the business Im in and the awareness of the people who seek home birth.

Me:  Do you see yourself as masculine or feminine?  Why?

L: I see myself as both! When I want to be feminine I can be very feminine. And when I want to be masculine I can be masculine.

Me:What were some of the factors in your life that molded your idea of masculinity and femininity?

L: Boarding school for ten years, all girls.  Being told what was feminine and how to be feminine.  it was definitely what moulded my feminine idea.  For masculinity, the media molded it.  I didn’t have horribly dominating men in my life, my mom chose to be single, and my dad is very dual, he’s wonderful.

     

Me: At what age do you first remember having a sense or idea of masculinity or femininity?

L: I remember knowing I was a boy when I was younger, I was like 4, and I didn’t understand why I couldn't just run around with undies on anymore.  And then when I was 12 I went to a hairdresser and he was gay and he insisted on talking to my mom about how wonderful my hair was, that people die for hair like his.  And I’m thinking, I’m getting little tits, i’m not a boy.  And I keep getting thought of as a boy.  And with a name like (), I’m often mistaken for a boy.

Me: Are men fundamentally different from women?  How and why?

L: They are, because I always thought if you gave a child - i raised three boys - i thought if you gave them dolls or treated them neutrally they wouldn’t have dominant male or female traits.  I was wrong.  They would hold barbies legs and sticks and use them as guns.  They were boys and there was nothing I could do about it. They punched each other.  Their dads not hyper macho.

me: do you think they learned that from somewhere or was it natural?

N: I think on a cellular level men are different than women, but i also really strongly believe that it’s  - not sexuality - but the traits can be mediated by you as you get older.

Me: Is the masculinity you see in Maine different from the rest of the United States?

L: No.  I haven’t been up here long though.

Me: What is universal to maleness, masculinity, and being a man?

L: Competition, competitiveness.  I really think that men are competitive.

Me: How are men socially measured in Maine?

L: Job.  That’s universal.  Income.

Me:  Are men naturally more violent and sex-focused than women?

L: I think yes, you can tell that even in a pre school, when the boys and the girls are together the boys are different.  

Me: What stereotypes and prejudices have you come across in Maine?  Or, are they any different than the rest of the U.S.?

N:I’m dealing with women, but I know that size - fat - is huge here?

Me: is that pun intended?

N: no.. We deal with quite a few large women, and my clients and teachers have been wonderful - working with them, they're such an underserved population.  Health is a huge denomenator up here in Maine.  People are prejudice against fat people up here.

Me: you realize a large portion of mainers are fat:

N: that’s what I’m saying, and there’s prejudice against them.  There were never fat people when I was growing up.

Me: what does feminism mean to you

N: its not as dirty a word as it used to be.  I don’t think it’s anywhere near as radical as it used to be.  And yet, a lot of people demean - use it derogatorily, from a woman speaking out for her rights.  Maybe it still is a bit radical.  What does it mean to me…  I think I’ve got a growing awareness that I’ve never had because of the business I’ve chosen, and I’m becoming more political about it.  And rights.  I think feminism is advancing the natural rights of women.  How’s that? I don’t know.